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An important message from System 7 Today founder Dan Palka
 Topic: S7T Applications DB... (Page 1 of 3)
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  blackangel (Profile)
  16 MB
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:10 am
Just a recomendation...

Seeing that the web is an every changing beast and links get eaten up (broken), why doesn't some, maybe that someone be S7T to have a huge DB collection of every application out there that can be obtained be categorised for System 7 usage. Even, info-mac doesn't have it all... trust me I downloaded their whole ftp site.

For example. Most software sites like Download.com and the likes have a very limited set of downloads, and some are links only to developer sites. The problem is, the web may be great but wasting time trying to find something and going through large amounts of links which require many clicks is a chore.

I propose 7.0-7.6.1 specific downloads, more than the listing in the Software guide with S7T... here is how it would work.

- You need an application to search the web... not manually as it takes bloody long. This application would need to be Mulithreaded to accomodate the numerous links envoled, and to be speedy. This app would search through each returned result and download anything that has a compressed prefix eg .sit, .bin, .zip or other mac friendly compression type. It would continue searching all other links and has to acommodate ftp, aftp, and other protocols appropriately, in which case, it would download the whole directory path. If the link is the likes of .html, htm, .jsp, .asp, .cfm, .php and others it would just follow the link

Continuing on
- after the download it would log from where the download took place so not to download it again, than uncompress the download, search its contents, and check the signature of the application, in some cases the extended version would denote who created the app in which case, it can be placed in a respective folder... eg. If it were to download Adobe Acrobat reader version 2, and there was no Folder named, Adobe.com or Adobe than it would create it and place the uncompressed folder there otherwise it would place the uncompressed folder there.

- On the download it would also log the application name and the FILE type. This is so that S7T can help users set up File Helpers for browsers and the likes that depend on such features

- Next it will log the file types which the applications can handle. Again this is so to help File Helpers or PC exchange etc know how to handle files.

The process of following links would probably take days if not months to exhaust the numerous links from site to site, so be prepared to have the app run in background mode most of the time, ie deamon

OK, now that the files are stored somewhere off site or on system7today.com, you would want to have users view the listing

- Have it that there is user maintenance from outside S7T to help in cateloging the applications, eg Business, DTP etc... demo, freeware, shareware etc... The DB would need this as the list would be far too large for any one person to look after. This can be from a web user interface or directly linking up to a Appletalk connection, testing the App and making notes, in which case one would need User permissions and the File Sharing setup. and seeing you guys use AppleShare that would be a piece of cake:)... You can make this DB FileMaker savvy... so that if people have 4.5 they don't need to use a web browser, they just use FM 4.5 and connect to your main DB at system7today.

- Another feature to have is a web portal to allow users to enter sites that contain Mac Applictions/Games and the like. But only have it that entries are unique. The application above can also search the given links and follow the steps above... This would be great as everyone would benefit from a vast collection of software.

Anyways, hope that was worth noting... I have yet to come across a system like this, but maybe S7T can come up with the goods:)
  dpaanlka (Profile)
  1024 MB
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:47 am
Out of curiosity, what links on the actual System 7 Today website (not links people post in forums) are broken? All the software that System 7 Today links to in our little database is hosted here, so there shouldn't be any broken links.

Also, as a side note, System 7 Today is actually part of The Info-Mac Network
  blackangel (Profile)
  16 MB
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:12 am
When I was referring to broken links, I was referring to all those sites that have a list of *LINKS* that state downloads and they turn out to be long gone... I guess the Net bubble in 2000 caused alot of well known companies to flake... The Original Guys that did Poser3D, Bryce3D... and many many others come to mind... All of the CEO;'s of those companies after the BS new world web consultancy idea... all pile of crap really... the internet has become a real tangled mess... I mean, yes it is called THE WEB... but even a spiders web is structured... the current internet as we know it as THE WEB is CHAOS... Doing a search on anything gets you a billion hits... I mean how the hell you mean to find anything meaning full if there is some much info... Information overload if you ask me.

The reason why I proposed the DB idea is not so much in degrading info-mac or any other site like that, the idea is to somehow compliment those. See, if you were to take all the software titles that out there... all those sites having software for downloads and some of them are specific the certain pages/companies/individuals, what you would have is a massive portal to all the software... Someone off the street so to speak can basically go to one single website and download all that is required, without searching days/nights for what he/she want.

Believe me, if your a Mac 7.x advocate and you want to save some pretty cool software, the only way is to save all that's out there, before you get a 404 error, and you can not find that software again. Same goes for Apple II/GS, Newton Mac OS 6 - 9.2.2 guys and others. I'm not really interested in X... as I did mention I really detest it like the epidemic.

thats a thought... oh, and in making this portal, what you would then have is a webservice interface, so other websites can basically piggy back from one central point, but just put their skin(gui) web look... eg, have clients like download.com, tucows.com etc reading from one download DB which would be a massive... you might even charge commision for using your extensive DB listing...

Trust me info-mac ain't big, and it really doesn't have * ALL * mac classic software... Like I said I downloaded the full ftp site plus others like MIT, the original TU-mac ftp... the web has plently more... That is why I proposed my idea.

This is a cool site, and making a specific application based DB that run under all 7.x variations would be awesome. I guess you could in effect the same principle to Apple II/gs, Newton.
  dpaanlka (Profile)
  1024 MB
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:21 pm
Can you give us some specific examples of software you feel Info-Mac and System 7 Today is missing?
  blackangel (Profile)
  16 MB
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:38 am
ALOT is missing from MOST download locations, that's because most of the time it is manual input by the web master or a small group of people.

What you have in info-mac is just a subset... search through it and you'll see what I mean. If it were a dedicated DB much like the one I'm proposing, I basically wouldn't require qoogle with the search query 'mac classic software' or 'mac software'... to search for more items. Such search engines now mostly bring back devoted MacOS X stuff. NOT what I'm interested in. And again I get a billion and one links... try going through those one by one... a waste of time

If you also do a cross examination between MIT info-mac, and many more others, you'll note that neither have each others software. Again, Why would anyone want to waste their time searching across multiple channels just to find stuff. Isn't the idea of the net to find something quick and painlessly... If someone actually took a step back and looked at the constructs of the Internet NOW, they would hide... I've been using it for nearly 20 years. There are billions of multi duplicated sites, and none have * ALL * that you require. And I mean ** ALL **. The same can be said about e-commerce sites... type in 'SCSI 160 Mac' and there are 500,000+ sites... and If you were wanting to find the best bargain again, its near to impossible. The INTERNET has no structure, and it was formed out of patch up jobs... Anyone can see this via the multitude of browser incompatibilities that even today we have... unless you actually still write HTML 1.0 standard!

To answer your question. I'm a person that is looking to obtain MOST if NOT * ALL * the software made available either freeware/shareware/demo or otherwise that can run on II/gs, Newton, and classic Mac. These include all variations. The one thing that I found that info-mac and these other so called software locations don't have is descent Science and technology stuff or even past Adobe great DEMO's like After Effects & Premier 4.5 for PPC under 9.x... I mean I couldn't care less about Alladin Stuffit, Graphics Converter, and other small branded apps... I wanted hard core science Applications that actually do something constructive... like expanding my knowledge or $$$ through using it in business, not waste it playing wanking DOOM/QUAKE/HL games and other crap, but I know someone else might want these games also.

So, in saying so, The proposition is quite straight forward - HAVE EVERYTHING AND ALL! through the following logical procedure.

- Have an automated process of discovering websites that have downloads, may they be archie, ftp, afp, http, direct ip, etc. This again might come from the horses mouth, as even google, yahoo don't have every possible link... sometimes you just happen to come across something by chance ... like CLICKING a web link from another site

- Store those locations in a lookup table and have a routine scheduled job to search those sites every so often for new stuff

- With the downloaded software, categorise them by Author, software and Version, even to the extent of checking its type, eg. 'APPL', 'INIT', CDEF' and others and 'pkg ' for Newton and the likes. these again can be used for users to find
Note: A folder action can be attached to the downloaded folder to check the newly decompressed file and scan its folder content for type... even Platform dependence... eg. IS it FAT, is it CFM-68k, is it PPC is it 68k - 68000/68010/68020/6830/68040, is it pro dos 8/16bit, is it a Newton package???

- Organise these in a directory structure according to the requirements above and give the names a descent naming convention... like stuffit_expender_3.5.x.bin which would reside under

Alladin Inc/Stuffit Expander/stuffit_expender_3.5.x.bin

This is after you have decompressed the downloaded software which may have been .zip, .sit or .cpio, .z, .img, .image, and any other other compressed type.

The file ite self can also have the the desription abut the software in its Descrtiption tag... the one that one see when doing Get Info... (only 255 chars though, so you might actually obtain this from the file itself as it has Extra file properties)

- have all files stored in .bin hex format as this is native to Mac and doesn't require stuffit... maybe have the oldest most universal .bin format, as again it will be accessible across multi OS's

- have a web service API which would allow third party to delve into your DB... the DB could be a simple XML file or even true DB in nature... seeing that your running of Appleshare or maybe macHTTP it could even be more advanced. This would allow them to reference your DB in an alligent way and present it under their own Web skin (GUI). Like I said, you could get some top notch commission out of this as it would be akin to Google/Yahoo, but ONLY for Macintosh or PRE X (aka COOL software)

I mean if I would have the time to do something like this it would be via Filemaker pro. And again in saying this, present the Filemaker pro web view to users like myself with restrictions of course, that just use the internet purely for the means to obtain stuff... without the searching hassel either through google, yahoo, altivista and any other...

Hope this gets your imagination going... There is nothing like this out there, cause if there were I would'nt be proposing it. And th reason why I'm proposing it here, Cause at least you run from a dedicated Mac Server and Server pltaform - Apple Share IP:)
  dpaanlka (Profile)
  1024 MB
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:31 am
I might of been more interested in something like this several years ago when Mac OS Classic was still somewhat relevant, but it really just isn't anymore. Perhaps someone out there who is eager and has lots of free time will read your great ideas and get inspired to do this.
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